WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:12.000 That was an accutated parliamentary assistant with a big example, a member of the European Parliament. 00:12.000 --> 00:15.000 And she's going to come and talk a bit about what's happening there. 00:15.000 --> 00:19.000 And from the political perspective, give us some insight. 00:19.000 --> 00:20.000 Yeah, please. 00:20.000 --> 00:21.000 Welcome. 00:21.000 --> 00:22.000 Thank you very much. 00:22.000 --> 00:25.000 Thank you very much for the video. 00:25.000 --> 00:26.000 Thank you. 00:26.000 --> 00:27.000 Okay. 00:27.000 --> 00:28.000 Perfect. 00:28.000 --> 00:30.000 That was a lengthy disclaimer. 00:30.000 --> 00:33.000 I think he meant me that I have never been here so far. 00:33.000 --> 00:35.000 I hope to change that for the future. 00:35.000 --> 00:40.000 So I'm looking forward to meeting a lot of faces again next year and then the upcoming years. 00:40.000 --> 00:47.000 It was clearly an omission on my side to not be aware of such an amazing conference that brings together so many experts in the field. 00:47.000 --> 00:51.000 And for me as an upper, so I work in the political field. 00:51.000 --> 00:57.000 I'm not the politically responsible person, but I'm preparing a lot of things that are later discussed and decided on European stage. 00:58.000 --> 01:04.000 It is incredible that something that amazing is happening every year and without us in the policy sphere noticing. 01:04.000 --> 01:14.000 Or, I mean, we have someone from the commission here, but from a department that is, well, I would say it's a gourmet department in the, in the interplay. 01:14.000 --> 01:15.000 I don't doubt that. 01:15.000 --> 01:16.000 I don't doubt that. 01:16.000 --> 01:22.000 So just, I will just open my presentation. 01:23.000 --> 01:27.000 Just to open up a little bit, a few free to ask any question at any time. 01:27.000 --> 01:33.000 I am aware that I'm using a lot of abbreviations, acronyms that are, for me, my bread and butter. 01:33.000 --> 01:35.000 But for you, this might sound a bit foreign. 01:35.000 --> 01:38.000 And therefore, I don't, well, that there are no real rules, right? 01:38.000 --> 01:41.000 So we can just introduce questions whenever. 01:41.000 --> 01:46.000 And later, when we have the panel discussion, please ask a lot of questions because this is also a chance. 01:46.000 --> 01:50.000 What I understand is that there's, perhaps, the... 01:50.000 --> 01:52.000 One step through the right, the other way. 01:52.000 --> 01:53.000 The other right, this is right. 01:53.000 --> 01:54.000 Ah, I'm sorry. 01:54.000 --> 01:57.000 Okay, well, that, I would just like open like this. 02:03.000 --> 02:04.000 This is the good right? 02:04.000 --> 02:06.000 Well, it's a good right, well. 02:06.000 --> 02:08.000 I already started with that jokes. 02:08.000 --> 02:09.000 All right. 02:11.000 --> 02:19.000 So, what I want to talk to you about today is a little bit a state of play, a stock taking, what has happened in the past mandate, 02:19.000 --> 02:23.000 by the European Commission and what the co-legislators have decided. 02:23.000 --> 02:27.000 All of you have heard the A, I, all of you heard about the DSA and the DMA. 02:27.000 --> 02:31.000 What does it really mean? What does it entail? What are the problems? 02:31.000 --> 02:35.000 And why are we now already talking about taking some of these legislation back? 02:35.000 --> 02:41.000 So, where are the, so to say issues about the legislation that we have decided last mandate? 02:41.000 --> 02:47.000 And yeah, why are we talking already about not implementing it, but even going as far as, 02:47.000 --> 02:50.000 withdrawing some of that legislation? 02:50.000 --> 02:55.000 Perhaps you also heard about something called the druggy report or the competitiveness compass. 02:55.000 --> 02:59.000 It's kind of funny because the compass is pointing you in one direction, usually. 02:59.000 --> 03:05.000 But in the European framework, we have 27 member states that will decide how to go into that direction. 03:05.000 --> 03:13.000 So, that is, I think a very interesting picture that the Commission has chosen in order to set its competitiveness agenda for the upcoming years. 03:13.000 --> 03:19.000 Notably, I think that something that could be quite interesting for everyone that is working on projects. 03:19.000 --> 03:26.000 There is a, there's a fund for scene. There is a multi-billion euro fund for scene just for competitiveness. 03:26.000 --> 03:30.000 We will elaborate and allude a little bit in the direction of how do we get that money, 03:30.000 --> 03:34.000 because I think that neither of you would right now be in the position or maybe a handful. 03:34.000 --> 03:38.000 I don't know, I don't want to assume, how to get actually access to this money. 03:38.000 --> 03:42.000 And this is some of the problems that we will discuss, hopefully in the panel, 03:42.000 --> 03:46.000 but I can only touch a little bit based on that subject. 03:46.000 --> 03:50.000 Overall, just about myself, I'm working on tech legislation, 03:50.000 --> 03:54.000 a bit more in the area of fundamental rights and internal affairs. 03:54.000 --> 03:58.000 So, the actual aspects are the adults within a different committee, 03:58.000 --> 04:01.000 which is called the so-called itchro committee, so innovation and technology, 04:01.000 --> 04:03.000 but also internal market. 04:04.000 --> 04:09.000 And already now, you can see that there's a lot of chefs cooking one soup. 04:09.000 --> 04:14.000 Here, we have a sort of disconnect in terms of what is necessary from different perspectives, 04:14.000 --> 04:17.000 because the ones that are regulating innovation, 04:17.000 --> 04:20.000 I do not necessarily talk to the data protection people. 04:20.000 --> 04:28.000 And then we also have internal market barriers, which is the, which is the, in, in, in, in, in the committee. 04:28.000 --> 04:31.000 There's, there's just a jacket, you can see. 04:32.000 --> 04:37.000 And therefore, it's already a challenge to streamline a position in the European Parliament, 04:37.000 --> 04:42.000 and I'm not even talking about the, the Member States Council side of things. 04:42.000 --> 04:44.000 This is a little bit where we are, right? 04:44.000 --> 04:49.000 Now, and just to talk about what is unfinished and what we are still talking about. 04:49.000 --> 04:54.000 So, we are, we have, we have something on the table, which is called the European Cloud Certification Scheme, 04:54.000 --> 04:58.000 which we can take baths, whether this will ever see the light of day or night, 04:58.000 --> 05:01.000 but they were quite some interesting ideas, because we're talking a lot about sovereignty, 05:01.000 --> 05:04.000 and we are talking about how to make Europe more competitive. 05:04.000 --> 05:08.000 But one aspect that was included by a handful of Member States later, 05:08.000 --> 05:12.000 they kind of dropped along the way, and it was left to France to advocate for this, 05:12.000 --> 05:16.000 was a sovereignty requirement and a immunity requirement. 05:16.000 --> 05:21.000 Not going to go into the details, but they were first attempts into making something, 05:21.000 --> 05:26.000 I would say, make it European first, or let's preference Europe first. 05:26.000 --> 05:31.000 But then later, this was, I mean at the moment, it is exclusively France, who is advocating for it. 05:31.000 --> 05:36.000 And therefore, we, we have a chance not to leave it to the hyperscalers. 05:36.000 --> 05:40.000 However, it is, at the moment, not so much used, or people are rather cautious, 05:40.000 --> 05:45.000 because in the past, what we were working mostly on was fair access to the internal market, 05:45.000 --> 05:46.000 abolish national barriers. 05:46.000 --> 05:50.000 So, there should be no difference between Germany, France, Czech Republic and Sweden, 05:50.000 --> 05:52.000 but we did not really think globally. 05:52.000 --> 05:55.000 So, first and foremost, we wanted to have one internal market, 05:55.000 --> 05:58.000 but did not really take into account that there would be other players, 05:58.000 --> 06:00.000 such as China, US and India. 06:00.000 --> 06:05.000 So, for now, this is a bit of a predicament that they use finding itself in, 06:05.000 --> 06:08.000 so we have worked well on having one single market, 06:08.000 --> 06:11.000 but where are we on European technologies exporting globally? 06:11.000 --> 06:15.000 We have some, I would not say, Champions, I would say, competitors. 06:15.000 --> 06:20.000 In Member States, these are competitors, in the Member States, are protected by their governments, 06:21.000 --> 06:23.000 but is there a European one? 06:23.000 --> 06:27.000 And this is an open question, and I, in the research from my presentation, 06:27.000 --> 06:30.000 I was surprised to see how many amazing European companies we have, 06:30.000 --> 06:34.000 but so little are known worldwide, or so little actually go out there 06:34.000 --> 06:37.000 and work in particular when you go from East to West. 06:37.000 --> 06:40.000 There are quite a few companies, in particular, in Eastern Europe, 06:40.000 --> 06:45.000 that would like to offer their services as well in the Western continent, 06:45.000 --> 06:48.000 part of Europe, but they are challenges. 06:48.000 --> 06:51.000 Notably, we have a Romanian company that has won the bit in Belgium, 06:51.000 --> 06:54.000 so I think that we should appreciate some of these small successes, 06:54.000 --> 06:56.000 but we do not talk about them enough. 07:00.000 --> 07:02.000 What the name is the title company? 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 What the name is? 07:04.000 --> 07:08.000 I will send it later, I will send it later. 07:10.000 --> 07:14.000 So, what is the strategy, how can we improve it? 07:14.000 --> 07:17.000 The first aspect I already mentioned, it was the compass, 07:17.000 --> 07:21.000 and the compass comes with an omnibus simplification package. 07:21.000 --> 07:25.000 So, we really like these passwords, we really like these names, and what does it mean? 07:25.000 --> 07:29.000 The omnibus means that there will be areas addressed or identified, 07:29.000 --> 07:32.000 where burdens are too big, cutting red tape, 07:32.000 --> 07:38.000 and therefore, it is necessary to work on either withdrawing legislation, 07:38.000 --> 07:42.000 or improving the state of play for SMEs. 07:42.000 --> 07:45.000 And at the moment, this is quite a worrying trend, 07:45.000 --> 07:50.000 because what we see is that simplification could be also used as a Trojan horse, 07:50.000 --> 07:54.000 in order to reopen or to weaken certain standards that we have achieved, 07:54.000 --> 07:58.000 and this concerns not only my area of expertise, fundamental rights, 07:58.000 --> 08:00.000 but also cybersecurity standards. 08:00.000 --> 08:04.000 And I hope that we will not end up in this false binary discussion, 08:04.000 --> 08:08.000 where we have to kind of weigh in on what is innovation, 08:08.000 --> 08:12.000 and what is competitiveness, and in the end we all know what will win. 08:13.000 --> 08:19.000 So, I hope that we will, in the process of negotiating alongside the omnibus proposal, 08:19.000 --> 08:25.000 that the voice of reason, the voice of actually improving the state of play for everyone 08:25.000 --> 08:28.000 will win over competitiveness considerations. 08:28.000 --> 08:31.000 So, since the kind of colleague already signaled me? 08:31.000 --> 08:33.000 No, no, no, no, no, no. 08:33.000 --> 08:38.000 I've got two of them agree, well, I understand how little 10 minutes are. 08:38.000 --> 08:41.000 But I hope that in any case, I hope that there will be a lot of questions 08:41.000 --> 08:44.000 that will actively and engagingly debate about this, 08:44.000 --> 08:48.000 because I'm requesting also from your side that you give me input, 08:48.000 --> 08:52.000 because it is not always, I mean, what we always preach is, 08:52.000 --> 08:54.000 not negotiate and silos. 08:54.000 --> 08:59.000 However, the reality is that there is little to no interconnection between the actual experts, 08:59.000 --> 09:01.000 the ones that are providing the services, 09:01.000 --> 09:04.000 the ones that are innovating really, that are creating, 09:04.000 --> 09:08.000 sometimes unintentionally an infrastructure, and us. 09:09.000 --> 09:12.000 And I wish to change that also with the new mandate, with the new majorities. 09:12.000 --> 09:16.000 I was asked to talk a little bit more about how work in the European Parliament is, 09:16.000 --> 09:21.000 but maybe later we will get to the point where I can explain to you how difficult it has actually become. 09:21.000 --> 09:25.000 Only in the first couple of months after the European elections already now, 09:25.000 --> 09:31.000 it is very challenging to find majorities that put progress, that put the people first. 09:31.000 --> 09:34.000 And therefore, it's going to be a big challenge, 09:34.000 --> 09:38.000 so I'm really relying on experts such as you and everyone. 09:38.000 --> 09:41.000 I hope somebody who watches online, to reach out. 09:41.000 --> 09:46.000 I will also, in the end, you will see my email address, in case you have ideas, 09:46.000 --> 09:48.000 in case you have input, my inbox is open. 09:48.000 --> 09:52.000 So I'm reading every email, I really like to have a clean inbox, 09:52.000 --> 09:55.000 but I also am a hands-on person. 09:55.000 --> 09:58.000 So if you write me something, if you want to have a suggestion, 09:58.000 --> 10:01.000 if you have a question, I'm not good on grants, unfortunately. 10:01.000 --> 10:06.000 So there's, usually there's people for just like how to read European grants and tenders. 10:06.000 --> 10:09.000 This is not something I can help you with, but I know who to connect you. 10:09.000 --> 10:11.000 This is what I can offer. 10:11.000 --> 10:14.000 In the end, I will just like skip immediately to the conclusions, 10:14.000 --> 10:16.000 because time is of essence. 10:16.000 --> 10:24.000 So what I'm hoping to see in the upcoming now four years is that we will adopt an interoperability by design principle. 10:24.000 --> 10:28.000 I hope that this is something that everyone can agree on, 10:28.000 --> 10:33.000 despite the political cooler and despite the college's latest standing. 10:33.000 --> 10:37.000 It is necessary that we have public services and digital infrastructures 10:37.000 --> 10:41.000 that ensure that actually the one's only principle actually works. 10:41.000 --> 10:44.000 It's not just like, you know, something that we preach, 10:44.000 --> 10:47.000 but we have to also walk the talk here. 10:47.000 --> 10:50.000 And we have to mend it open standards in procurement processes. 10:50.000 --> 10:54.000 This is a very interesting aspect that was mentioned at the open for summits. 10:54.000 --> 10:57.000 I think that we can actually integrate this. 10:58.000 --> 11:00.000 Legislatively not as challenging. 11:00.000 --> 11:03.000 It's just a political question. 11:03.000 --> 11:07.000 Then I want to, I want to see more investment into European open source projects. 11:07.000 --> 11:11.000 And here the investment is the key and how to ask for that investment. 11:11.000 --> 11:16.000 So we have to bring together public spending, public money, but also private money. 11:16.000 --> 11:19.000 And become better at connecting this, you know. 11:19.000 --> 11:22.000 And I think that's everybody is on dating apps nowadays. 11:22.000 --> 11:24.000 We have to match these demands. 11:24.000 --> 11:30.000 But we need to have the money and the project and the services match together. 11:30.000 --> 11:33.000 Over all, we need to encourage collaboration. 11:33.000 --> 11:36.000 Well, this is nice and then, but how does this look like? 11:36.000 --> 11:39.000 And the collaboration part comes from demand. 11:39.000 --> 11:43.000 So if we create the demand, then we will also have more collaboration. 11:43.000 --> 11:46.000 And last but not least, education and training. 11:46.000 --> 11:48.000 And I'm including myself here. 11:48.000 --> 11:53.000 I also want to understand better what you guys are doing, what are developers doing, 11:53.000 --> 11:54.000 what are open source means. 11:54.000 --> 11:59.000 And this is a panel that was earlier, or maybe it was later, I don't know. 11:59.000 --> 12:01.000 But everything about open washing. 12:01.000 --> 12:05.000 So that people cannot claim that they are actually providing you with an open source software. 12:05.000 --> 12:09.000 And just because it sounds nice, doesn't necessarily mean that this is the case. 12:09.000 --> 12:13.000 So we also have to look here what we are, what do we want to support? 12:13.000 --> 12:17.000 And I think that in the overall policy makers have to take a bit of a lesson. 12:17.000 --> 12:22.000 And talk more to people who are actually building the infrastructure and offering the services. 12:22.000 --> 12:27.000 And I'm here to extend an arm and hoping to learn a lot from you. 12:27.000 --> 12:28.000 And my time is up now. 12:28.000 --> 12:30.000 So thank you very much for the attention. 12:30.000 --> 12:31.000 And yeah. 12:31.000 --> 12:42.000 Thank you very much. 12:42.000 --> 12:55.000 We will now welcome Alexander Smolanicki and Samuel Peku for presentation about the open desk. 12:56.000 --> 13:01.000 Here you go. 13:01.000 --> 13:02.000 Yeah. 13:02.000 --> 13:09.000 And then I don't think we don't have the point. 13:09.000 --> 13:12.000 Just take the mic off the mic for the video. 13:12.000 --> 13:13.000 Yeah. 13:13.000 --> 13:16.000 And you have to stay in between the lightest stand in this box. 13:16.000 --> 13:17.000 Perfect. 13:17.000 --> 13:18.000 Perfect. 13:18.000 --> 13:19.000 Cool. 13:19.000 --> 13:21.000 Good morning guys. 13:22.000 --> 13:25.000 Maybe just before we immediately, so many cameras. 13:25.000 --> 13:33.000 And maybe before we will start talking about how we work together, we will briefly explain what we are working on. 13:33.000 --> 13:34.000 My name is Alexander. 13:34.000 --> 13:36.000 This is Samuel. 13:36.000 --> 13:43.000 And we have two big products which we are shipping in so far just two nations. 13:43.000 --> 13:46.000 One of them is open desk. 13:46.000 --> 13:50.000 It's a bundle of different productivity apps. 13:50.000 --> 13:55.000 So to say, which we call a server in workspace. 13:55.000 --> 14:07.000 And you can do basically everything from your day-to-day work up until collaboration and real-time communication as in chat or video conferencing. 14:07.000 --> 14:09.000 And we do it as send this. 14:09.000 --> 14:12.000 Send this is a German state. 14:13.000 --> 14:18.000 So to say, send this stands for the center of digital sovereignty. 14:18.000 --> 14:25.000 And we will have a teaser in regards to where you can find us later on. 14:25.000 --> 14:26.000 Yeah. 14:26.000 --> 14:33.000 So on the French side, we started with another the other way around with last suite. 14:33.000 --> 14:35.000 We had seen the COVID. 14:35.000 --> 14:39.000 We had some standalone applications for one for video conferencing. 14:39.000 --> 14:45.000 For instant messaging and one for collaboration online. 14:45.000 --> 14:47.000 But there are separate applications. 14:47.000 --> 14:51.000 And so we to make it a suite. 14:51.000 --> 14:53.000 We worked on SSO. 14:53.000 --> 14:56.000 So because France is more centralized as a state. 14:56.000 --> 14:58.000 So we have a central SSO. 14:58.000 --> 15:07.000 And we start with this application that has been starting now to make them interoperable and try to make a suite from this. 15:07.000 --> 15:09.000 So these are two different approaches. 15:09.000 --> 15:15.000 And although we have different approaches, we are starting to see how we can work together. 15:15.000 --> 15:17.000 That's the magic of open source. 15:17.000 --> 15:22.000 That we can iteratively find common grounds. 15:22.000 --> 15:30.000 Earlier last year, there was the idea that France and Germany should work together. 15:30.000 --> 15:32.000 And it was a process. 15:32.000 --> 15:36.000 I think it was two years in making of a three-page document. 15:36.000 --> 15:42.000 Such a memorandum of understanding where two states would share common efforts. 15:42.000 --> 15:46.000 And once it was signed for the French and also for the German team, 15:46.000 --> 15:49.000 we said that we should make results faster. 15:49.000 --> 15:51.000 Well, what's that? 15:51.000 --> 15:57.000 That's the power of can you, your computer? 15:57.000 --> 16:02.000 And we said that we should create results faster. 16:02.000 --> 16:05.000 And an unbirocratic manner. 16:05.000 --> 16:15.000 And the idea that we worked on is, how can we work together as two separate teams without any joint? 16:15.000 --> 16:18.000 That's really cool to see all of that. 16:18.000 --> 16:19.000 Oh, good. 16:19.000 --> 16:27.000 There is an open source alternative to the tool. 16:27.000 --> 16:34.000 We'll provide the team. 16:34.000 --> 16:39.000 Anyhow, so what we did, it's all good. 16:39.000 --> 16:43.000 Nor is we will just skip like that. 16:44.000 --> 16:51.000 So what we did was we figured out the way that both teams as in product and also developers 16:51.000 --> 16:55.000 and also some policy people created for themselves challenges, 16:55.000 --> 17:01.000 which we gave in 100 day budget each, so to say, to solve and tackle. 17:01.000 --> 17:05.000 And to tell you more about the challenges that we decided on, 17:05.000 --> 17:09.000 Samuel is going to briefly explain that. 17:10.000 --> 17:12.000 So we decided on three challenges. 17:12.000 --> 17:17.000 The first challenge was to try to connect our SSLs. 17:17.000 --> 17:22.000 So see if the French site could log in our applications. 17:22.000 --> 17:27.000 Sorry, if the German site could log into the French application and also the country. 17:27.000 --> 17:30.000 And so this was the first project. 17:30.000 --> 17:33.000 There's not much development, it's more on configuration. 17:33.000 --> 17:36.000 But it's a big impact if we manage to do this. 17:36.000 --> 17:41.000 The second project was to work on our collaboration tool. 17:41.000 --> 17:46.000 We had, we see a lot of people doing shadow IT going to notion. 17:46.000 --> 17:52.000 And so we thought we need to have something to this level to be able to do documentation 17:52.000 --> 17:54.000 and real-time collaboration. 17:54.000 --> 17:57.000 So we started working on this kind of tool together. 17:57.000 --> 18:02.000 And the third challenge was are we able to put some AI in one of our products. 18:02.000 --> 18:04.000 This is a big objective. 18:04.000 --> 18:06.000 Now, there's people wanting to finance AI. 18:06.000 --> 18:08.000 I want to see what Europe is able to do. 18:08.000 --> 18:15.000 So we said, as very pragmatic approach, what are we able to put in our tool in a few days of work. 18:15.000 --> 18:18.000 So that's the three challenges we gave ourselves. 18:18.000 --> 18:21.000 And we had quite some success with these challenges. 18:21.000 --> 18:24.000 They went from September to December and December. 18:24.000 --> 18:28.000 We had a big show in Berlin where we showed what we have done. 18:28.000 --> 18:37.000 It's basically, I think it's always interesting to see if two governments work together. 18:37.000 --> 18:41.000 It's always either you have state dinners or something like that. 18:41.000 --> 18:43.000 Or it's completely informal. 18:43.000 --> 18:55.000 And we really liked the fact that we created some sort of a joint team where people shared across language barriers across just also state barriers. 18:55.000 --> 19:04.000 So to say, common tasks, we had hackathons where both teams met either in Germany or in France. 19:04.000 --> 19:07.000 We always, and that was, I think, also really important. 19:07.000 --> 19:11.000 We shared results with other countries as well. 19:11.000 --> 19:18.000 So we had a hackathon with, I think, eight other countries in September, in Paris. 19:18.000 --> 19:24.000 Then we had a final event also with representatives also from the commission and also from other countries. 19:24.000 --> 19:26.000 Back in December, we provided food. 19:26.000 --> 19:29.000 It's not only 24-7 work, but we also provided food. 19:29.000 --> 19:40.000 It's always important to all the developers and the different tasks and the different challenges were conducted in a very different manner. 19:40.000 --> 19:46.000 And it's really interesting to see culture also within governments, which are sometimes different, work together actually. 19:46.000 --> 20:01.000 So we had one team which, up until now, sometimes it's now it's sometimes daily, but they had just daily stand-ups where there was no real, I don't know, there was no task that they would have to tackle in such a manner. 20:01.000 --> 20:15.000 So to say, but we created an environment where basically all the developers could figure out a way how they can work best to provide this results and come up to that idea. 20:15.000 --> 20:19.000 And I think it's really important on that note. 20:19.000 --> 20:27.000 Also to say thank you, thank you to the developers who worked with us and are still working and are maybe in the stream or are going to see it somewhere. 20:27.000 --> 20:42.000 But also thanks to the CIOs of France and Germany that we could start something like that because it's nothing out of the ordinary, so to say that two states can work on a really easy manner in that regard. 20:42.000 --> 20:56.000 And what we noticed is that it's something that not only sovereignty doesn't stop at the German or the French or the German French border, but it's European or joint effort. 20:56.000 --> 21:08.000 And in December we had not only the results of the 100 day challenges, but we also added up a new partner to that project with the Netherlands. 21:08.000 --> 21:20.000 And I think the Dutch team already was involved somehow in advance as well because it's a topic which is, I think, also dear to their heart. 21:20.000 --> 21:30.000 And we see that you don't always need to have a document, I don't know, with the light, maybe you can't see it, but they all have folders and it was a mess. 21:30.000 --> 21:37.000 It was really easy to get the results of the 100 day challenges, but for example, deciding on what kind of paper, because each state has a separate paper 21:37.000 --> 21:45.000 for international documents. And if it tried, literal document is being signed, what kind of paper is going to be used for that. 21:45.000 --> 21:55.000 These were topics which were much more important, so to say, to figure out rather than the results and maybe Boris. 21:55.000 --> 22:06.000 So we have a new partner in this endeavor, so to say, and we are going to announce soon what the next challenges are going to be. 22:06.000 --> 22:17.000 And maybe Boris, you can explain, maybe the motivation, but also what you guys expect from such a cooperation with us. 22:17.000 --> 22:22.000 It's completely spontaneous that Boris saw. 22:22.000 --> 22:27.000 Yeah, because we joined the project away after the first talk deadline. 22:27.000 --> 22:36.000 So here I am. Now, we were looking into the problems that come with technological sovereignty and such. 22:36.000 --> 22:44.000 And we were really trying to find, like, how can we have the office tools that fit our civil servants better than the tools that they're using now? 22:44.000 --> 22:50.000 And of course, it was very logical for us to think about like, okay, how are others doing it? 22:50.000 --> 22:59.000 We see this collaboration between two of you, it's already really fruitful and very useful. So when we started that project, we really thought like, 22:59.000 --> 23:08.000 let's take as a base assumption that we are going to first try all of the things that you are doing before we're going to invent our own. 23:08.000 --> 23:15.000 We're fully knowing that at some point we're going to need to do our own things, because we are very different countries, we are organized differently. 23:15.000 --> 23:20.000 And we need to find out how to match this software to our own workings. 23:20.000 --> 23:37.000 And what I really hope and what we're really looking for is that in the longer term, we can build the common infrastructures on our public administrations together in a way that will allow us to express those those particularities of ourselves. 23:37.000 --> 23:45.000 As well as we can. And I think open source and the the fault of collaboration is really the way to be there. 23:45.000 --> 23:48.000 So we're very happy to be to be a part of this. 23:48.000 --> 23:50.000 Cool, thank you. 23:50.000 --> 23:52.000 Do you want to? 23:52.000 --> 24:04.000 Yeah, maybe just saying that we have different approaches and we need to have our, we need to answer the needs of our public agents, our political leaders. 24:04.000 --> 24:08.000 So important is we share what we do. 24:08.000 --> 24:11.000 Like if we are committed to open source and whatever we do, we share it. 24:11.000 --> 24:14.000 And when we find common grounds, we work together. 24:14.000 --> 24:19.000 And we will produce maybe some time different things and sometimes things in common. 24:19.000 --> 24:25.000 And again, we recreate the great common for Europe and we hope more countries can join this. 24:25.000 --> 24:26.000 Yeah. 24:26.000 --> 24:35.000 And if you want to know more about what we are doing, we have our own deaf room in the afternoon, which is right across the whole. 24:35.000 --> 24:41.000 If you want to know more about last week and open desk, we have obviously we have websites. 24:41.000 --> 24:47.000 And also chat to us. Also there are many people from the product teams from last week and open desk. 24:47.000 --> 24:52.000 All of them are going to be in this room today in the afternoon. 24:53.000 --> 24:55.000 And we'll demo one of the second. 24:55.000 --> 24:58.000 Yeah, we will demo the second challenge. 24:58.000 --> 25:02.000 And if you want to talk to us, you can use the third challenge, which is the video conferencing solution. 25:02.000 --> 25:03.000 Yeah. 25:03.000 --> 25:05.000 So, feel free. 25:05.000 --> 25:06.000 Thank you guys. 25:06.000 --> 25:08.000 We are on time. 25:08.000 --> 25:09.000 Yeah. 25:09.000 --> 25:10.000 Thank you. 25:14.000 --> 25:17.000 So, we all do things very differently. 25:17.000 --> 25:25.000 I would recommend Belgium to join, because we already have the colours of the flag in some of the software. 25:25.000 --> 25:30.000 And for us, it was really easy, because we could just turn all the friends software at 90 degrees. 25:30.000 --> 25:32.000 And then it would look very Dutch. 25:33.000 --> 25:34.000 Thank you. 25:41.000 --> 25:48.000 We will now have, I'll let the people get in and get out a bit. 25:57.000 --> 25:59.000 I'm going to wait for the dust to settle down. 26:03.000 --> 26:05.000 Okay. 26:18.000 --> 26:21.000 We don't have chairs for you guys. 26:21.000 --> 26:23.000 We don't have chairs for you all. 26:23.000 --> 26:24.000 No, I think we stand. 26:24.000 --> 26:25.000 Yeah, you're standing. 26:25.000 --> 26:30.000 It can be that maybe we need to get more comfortable. 26:31.000 --> 26:33.000 Maybe we can get in front. 26:33.000 --> 26:38.000 Yeah, I mean, as you like, I mean, yeah, the camera was like, we felt, because there's the video. 26:38.000 --> 26:39.000 Yeah. 26:39.000 --> 26:43.000 So, I don't mind if I'm not in the video, but maybe the camera will be there. 26:43.000 --> 26:44.000 Okay. 26:44.000 --> 26:47.000 So, I like the other camera was like, the cool thing to do here. 26:47.000 --> 26:48.000 Okay. 26:48.000 --> 26:53.000 So, I like, like, I'll say, if I make a question for them and then open the discussion. 26:53.000 --> 26:54.000 Yeah. 26:54.000 --> 26:56.000 So, I can explain what's interesting. 27:01.000 --> 27:02.000 Yeah. 27:10.000 --> 27:11.000 Yeah. 27:14.000 --> 27:15.000 Yeah. 27:15.000 --> 27:16.000 Yeah. 27:16.000 --> 27:17.000 Yeah. 27:17.000 --> 27:18.000 I'm the only introduction. 27:18.000 --> 27:20.000 But I can look myself. 27:20.000 --> 27:21.000 Yeah. 27:21.000 --> 27:23.000 So, if you're standing in the debate for this, I was offering, 27:23.000 --> 27:25.000 to interview you, to the extent of the front. 27:25.000 --> 27:28.000 It was just for the video, it better for you here. 27:28.000 --> 27:31.000 If one of you wants to sit down, it's to sit down. 27:31.000 --> 27:33.000 It's going to be great. 27:33.000 --> 27:34.000 Great. 27:34.000 --> 27:35.000 That's very good. 27:35.000 --> 27:36.000 Go better. 27:36.000 --> 27:38.000 I love that. 27:38.000 --> 27:39.000 Okay. 27:39.000 --> 27:42.000 Well, thank you for everyone who joined us in the meantime. 27:42.000 --> 27:47.000 We will now move on with our panel discussion or also people discussion. 27:47.000 --> 27:52.000 You obviously invited to participate as questions intervened. 27:52.000 --> 27:57.000 And so, you've already met Alexander and Ania, but I need to introduce you to you. 27:57.000 --> 27:59.000 This is Victoria Beltona. 27:59.000 --> 28:05.000 See you off of an exchange, but also a member of the collaboration with Open Desk. 28:05.000 --> 28:12.000 And one of the co-author of the recent report on the EuroStack. 28:12.000 --> 28:14.000 Can I name you co-author? 28:14.000 --> 28:15.000 Okay. Perfect. 28:15.000 --> 28:22.000 And so, this is going to be a bit of a dive into the current discussion about how to fund the public sector. 28:22.000 --> 28:24.000 You've to open for some moment. 28:24.000 --> 28:25.000 The first act is one of them. 28:25.000 --> 28:26.000 There's orders. 28:26.000 --> 28:32.000 And to have basically three different perspectives on this from the political, more private, 28:32.000 --> 28:36.000 perspective, and also the public sector perspective. 28:36.000 --> 28:40.000 But yeah, I think I can actually, I'm sorry. 28:40.000 --> 28:41.000 I think we need to mic. 28:41.000 --> 28:42.000 Okay. 28:42.000 --> 28:45.000 Well, and thanks for promoting me, but I'm not the CEO of the change. 28:45.000 --> 28:47.000 No, I'm just ahead of policy. 28:47.000 --> 28:50.000 I mean, but I mean, maybe later, I mean, unless, 28:50.000 --> 28:53.000 maybe it happened and nobody told me yet, but I don't think so. 28:53.000 --> 28:54.000 So, no, hello. 28:54.000 --> 28:55.000 Hi. 28:55.000 --> 28:56.000 I'm Victor Belldola, the head of policy. 28:56.000 --> 28:57.000 Open exchange. 28:57.000 --> 28:59.000 Which is a German up and so softer maker. 28:59.000 --> 29:00.000 We make stuff like that. 29:00.000 --> 29:03.000 Got empowered in S. So you possibly know some of our software. 29:03.000 --> 29:08.000 And I'm here because I'm originally an engineer that, I mean, already a long time ago, 29:08.000 --> 29:10.000 became interested in this kind of political stuff. 29:10.000 --> 29:12.000 And so, I mean, at a certain point of the career, 29:12.000 --> 29:14.000 moved to this policy realm. 29:14.000 --> 29:17.000 And this is exactly the point where we are now. 29:17.000 --> 29:22.000 So it happened almost by chance that it got involved in this thing called the EuroStack. 29:22.000 --> 29:27.000 It was something that was launched by economists and competition economists and business people 29:27.000 --> 29:30.000 from the public sector and high ranking public sector officers. 29:30.000 --> 29:33.000 We share the same problem as we have. 29:33.000 --> 29:36.000 So they think we are colonized by big tech. 29:36.000 --> 29:39.000 And we need to be independent as Europe for a number of reasons. 29:39.000 --> 29:43.000 But they have the appropriate, in the sense that they don't know how to make the technology happen. 29:43.000 --> 29:46.000 So they were looking for techies and asking them in how can we actual build this. 29:47.000 --> 29:54.000 And so we, I mean, this led to a sort of an opinion campaign and a report that you can find online. 29:54.000 --> 29:55.000 Yeah. 29:55.000 --> 30:00.000 And but the point is that we are at a very important moment. 30:00.000 --> 30:04.000 And this is why open desk and this kind of model is so important. 30:04.000 --> 30:08.000 Europe has been saying that we need technical independence for a long time now. 30:08.000 --> 30:12.000 And as been doing a lot of stuff, I mean, we've been doing a lot of regulation, 30:12.000 --> 30:14.000 which is important. It's useful. 30:14.000 --> 30:16.000 I think it should be enforced. 30:16.000 --> 30:20.000 Actually, no, I am actually worried that I hear start to hear like MEPs and people saying, 30:20.000 --> 30:24.000 we need less regulation that will actually one in a conference three days ago saying, 30:24.000 --> 30:28.000 maybe the problem why we cannot compete with the Americans is that we have the GDPR. 30:28.000 --> 30:30.000 We should abolish the GDPR because it's just bureaucracy. 30:30.000 --> 30:32.000 No, this is not the point. 30:32.000 --> 30:34.000 The point is that we need the regulation that we have been making. 30:34.000 --> 30:38.000 We need to get it enforced even more strongly than it has been done until now. 30:38.000 --> 30:41.000 But then we also need to start building stuff. 30:41.000 --> 30:44.000 And to build stuff, we need money, we need investment. 30:44.000 --> 30:47.000 We need the investment that has an impact. 30:47.000 --> 30:50.000 Europe is investing a lot of money in search projects. 30:50.000 --> 30:55.000 How many commonly used the internet products have come out of the European search projects? 30:55.000 --> 30:56.000 Zero, I think. 30:56.000 --> 31:02.000 So the problem we have as a Europe is to help to spend our money to make something that people can actually use. 31:02.000 --> 31:07.000 And so this is why we, as a company, we are also partners in open desk. 31:07.000 --> 31:09.000 We provide part of our software, which they use for, 31:09.000 --> 31:11.000 I mean, it's open, they could use it without our money. 31:11.000 --> 31:12.000 Last week as well. 31:12.000 --> 31:13.000 Yeah. 31:13.000 --> 31:16.000 So the point is exactly how to make things happen. 31:16.000 --> 31:23.000 And public procurement is the key, because public procurement is money that we as taxpayers have to pay anyway, 31:23.000 --> 31:26.000 because the public office needs technical infrastructure. 31:26.000 --> 31:31.000 And that now it has been spent for 30 years on Microsoft and other big tech stuff, 31:31.000 --> 31:33.000 which has made us more and more dependent. 31:33.000 --> 31:38.000 So if we can just direct even just as a small part of that money into open source software, 31:38.000 --> 31:42.000 made in Europe, we are creating independence, we are creating jobs, 31:42.000 --> 31:47.000 we are creating the tax revenue that we need to keep our welfare up and running and all these things. 31:47.000 --> 31:51.000 And so this is why I'm interested, and this is now the question for the panel. 31:51.000 --> 31:56.000 Well, first of all, well, I think you have different views coming from the political sphere, 31:56.000 --> 32:00.000 and maybe from our practical sphere, but it's this model that can work. 32:00.000 --> 32:05.000 So how hard it is to extend this kind of idea to cover the other sectors that we need. 32:05.000 --> 32:11.000 I mean, we still, I think open desk and laugh it in America now focusing more on like personal productivity, 32:11.000 --> 32:16.000 platforms software, but this is a model maybe that separately even can work for other things that we need. 32:16.000 --> 32:20.000 I mean, like European, so changing social media, whatever. 32:20.000 --> 32:24.000 And maybe from the political sphere is, I mean, do you see the wheel, 32:24.000 --> 32:28.000 that European level to pursue this in practice and the attention to this problem? 32:28.000 --> 32:31.000 Anyway, and then you can say whatever you want, and then we will take questions. 32:31.000 --> 32:33.000 So I'm finishing here. 32:33.000 --> 32:36.000 Once to start. 32:36.000 --> 32:38.000 Thank you. 32:38.000 --> 32:40.000 Thank you for the question. 32:40.000 --> 32:43.000 I would start with Eurostek is a buzzword. 32:43.000 --> 32:46.000 And I think we have. 32:46.000 --> 32:49.000 Yeah, the microphone is for the live stream, apparently. 32:49.000 --> 32:52.000 Ah, I'm sorry. 32:52.000 --> 32:56.000 I hope the live stream can also hear us, but yeah, I would try to speak a bit louder. 32:56.000 --> 32:58.000 So Eurostek, it's first of all, it's just a name. 32:58.000 --> 33:00.000 So we have to identify what does it mean? 33:00.000 --> 33:02.000 So what do we really want to support? 33:02.000 --> 33:04.000 And do we start with the hardware? 33:04.000 --> 33:05.000 Where do we go? 33:05.000 --> 33:06.000 Does it go until the application layer? 33:06.000 --> 33:10.000 So we really have to distinguish where and what do we want to support? 33:10.000 --> 33:13.000 And here, I think it's quite remarkable because just.