WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:13.000 I think we need to mic. 00:13.000 --> 00:17.000 Thanks for promoting me, but I'm not the CEO of the change. 00:17.000 --> 00:19.000 No, I'm just the head of policy. 00:19.000 --> 00:22.000 But I mean, maybe late. 00:22.000 --> 00:26.000 Maybe it happened that nobody told me yet, but I don't think so. 00:27.000 --> 00:29.000 We thought about the head of policy, open exchange. 00:29.000 --> 00:31.000 Which is a German up and so softer maker. 00:31.000 --> 00:33.000 We make stuff like that, got empowered in S. 00:33.000 --> 00:35.000 So you possibly know some of our software. 00:35.000 --> 00:38.000 And I'm here because I'm originally an engineer 00:38.000 --> 00:40.000 that I mean already a long time ago, 00:40.000 --> 00:42.000 became interested in this kind of political stuff. 00:42.000 --> 00:44.000 And so I mean at a certain point of the career 00:44.000 --> 00:46.000 moved to this policy realm. 00:46.000 --> 00:49.000 And this is exactly the point where we are now. 00:49.000 --> 00:53.000 So it happened almost by chance that it got involved 00:53.000 --> 00:55.000 with this thing called the euro stack. 00:55.000 --> 00:58.000 It was something that was launched by economists and 00:58.000 --> 01:01.000 competition economists and business people from the public sector 01:01.000 --> 01:03.000 and high ranking public sector officers. 01:03.000 --> 01:05.000 We share the same problem as we have. 01:05.000 --> 01:08.000 So they think we are colonized by big tech. 01:08.000 --> 01:12.000 And we need to be independent as Europe for a number of reasons. 01:12.000 --> 01:14.000 But they have their problems in the sense that they don't know 01:14.000 --> 01:15.000 how to make the technology happen. 01:15.000 --> 01:17.000 So they were looking for techies and asking them 01:17.000 --> 01:19.000 how can we actually build this. 01:19.000 --> 01:24.000 And so we did this lead to a sort of an opinion campaign 01:24.000 --> 01:27.000 and a report that you can find online. 01:27.000 --> 01:32.000 But the point is that we are at a very important moment 01:32.000 --> 01:36.000 and this is why open-desk and this kind of model is so important. 01:36.000 --> 01:39.000 Europe has been saying that we need technical independence 01:39.000 --> 01:40.000 for a long time now. 01:40.000 --> 01:42.000 And as been doing a lot of stuff, 01:42.000 --> 01:44.000 I mean we've been doing a lot of regulation, 01:44.000 --> 01:46.000 which is important, it's useful. 01:46.000 --> 01:47.000 I think it should be enforced. 01:47.000 --> 01:50.000 Actually, I'm actually worried that I hear stuff 01:50.000 --> 01:53.000 to hear like MEPs and people saying we need less regulation 01:53.000 --> 01:56.000 that we're actually one in a conference three days ago saying 01:56.000 --> 01:58.000 maybe the problem why we cannot compete with the Americans 01:58.000 --> 01:59.000 is that we have the GDPR. 01:59.000 --> 02:02.000 We should abolish the GDPR because it's just bureaucracy. 02:02.000 --> 02:04.000 No, this is not the point. 02:04.000 --> 02:06.000 The point is that we need the regulation that we have been making. 02:06.000 --> 02:10.000 We need to get it enforced even more strongly than it has been done 02:10.000 --> 02:11.000 until now. 02:11.000 --> 02:13.000 But then we also need to start building stuff. 02:13.000 --> 02:16.000 And to build stuff, we need money, we need investment. 02:17.000 --> 02:19.000 We need the investment that has an impact. 02:19.000 --> 02:23.000 Europe is investing a lot of money in search projects. 02:23.000 --> 02:26.000 How many commonly used the Internet products have come out 02:26.000 --> 02:28.000 over the European search projects? 02:28.000 --> 02:29.000 Zero, I think. 02:29.000 --> 02:32.000 So the problem we have as Europe is to help to spend our money 02:32.000 --> 02:34.000 to make something that people can actually use. 02:34.000 --> 02:37.000 And so this is why we, as a company, 02:37.000 --> 02:39.000 we are also partners in open-desk. 02:39.000 --> 02:41.000 We provide part of our software, which they use for. 02:41.000 --> 02:42.000 I mean, it's open. 02:42.000 --> 02:43.000 They could use it without hardware. 02:43.000 --> 02:45.000 The suite as well. 02:45.000 --> 02:48.000 So the point is exactly how to make things happen. 02:48.000 --> 02:50.000 And public procurement is the key. 02:50.000 --> 02:53.000 Because public procurement is money that we, as taxpayers, 02:53.000 --> 02:54.000 have to pay anyway. 02:54.000 --> 02:58.000 Because the public office needs technical infrastructure. 02:58.000 --> 03:01.000 And that now it has been spent for 30 years on Microsoft 03:01.000 --> 03:05.000 and other big tech stuff, which has made us more and more dependent. 03:05.000 --> 03:09.000 So if we can just direct even just as more part of that money 03:09.000 --> 03:11.000 into open source software, making Europe, 03:11.000 --> 03:14.000 we are creating independence, we are creating jobs, 03:14.000 --> 03:17.000 we are creating the tech surviving that we need to keep our welfare 03:17.000 --> 03:19.000 up and running and all these things. 03:19.000 --> 03:22.000 And so this is why I'm interested, and this is now there. 03:22.000 --> 03:23.000 The question for the panel. 03:23.000 --> 03:28.000 First of all, well, I think you have different views coming from the political sphere 03:28.000 --> 03:30.000 and maybe from a more practical sphere. 03:30.000 --> 03:32.000 But it's this model that can work. 03:32.000 --> 03:37.000 So how hard it is to extend this kind of idea to cover the other sectors 03:37.000 --> 03:38.000 that we need. 03:38.000 --> 03:42.000 I mean, I think open-desk and LaFeed America now focusing more on 03:42.000 --> 03:45.000 like personal productivity, platforms software. 03:45.000 --> 03:49.000 But this model may be that separate even can work for other things that we need. 03:49.000 --> 03:52.000 I mean, like European sort of change in social media, whatever. 03:52.000 --> 03:56.000 And maybe from the political sphere is, I mean, do you see the wheel 03:56.000 --> 04:00.000 that European level to pursue this in practice and the attention to this problem? 04:00.000 --> 04:02.000 Anyway, and then you can say whatever you want, 04:02.000 --> 04:03.000 and then we will take questions. 04:03.000 --> 04:05.000 So I'm finishing here. 04:05.000 --> 04:06.000 Want to start? 04:06.000 --> 04:07.000 Thank you. 04:07.000 --> 04:08.000 Thank you. 04:08.000 --> 04:11.000 Thank you for the question. 04:11.000 --> 04:15.000 I would start with Eurostek is a buzzword. 04:15.000 --> 04:17.000 And I think we have. 04:17.000 --> 04:22.000 The microphone is for the live stream, the parent pages. 04:22.000 --> 04:24.000 I'm sorry. 04:24.000 --> 04:26.000 I hope the live stream can also hear us. 04:26.000 --> 04:28.000 But yeah, I would try to speak a bit louder. 04:28.000 --> 04:30.000 So Eurostek, first of all, it's just the name. 04:30.000 --> 04:32.000 So we have to identify what does it mean. 04:32.000 --> 04:34.000 So what do we really want to support? 04:34.000 --> 04:36.000 And do we start with the hardware? 04:36.000 --> 04:37.000 Where do we go? 04:37.000 --> 04:39.000 Does it go until the application layer? 04:39.000 --> 04:42.000 We really have to distinguish where and what do we want to support? 04:42.000 --> 04:46.000 And here, I think it's quite remarkable because you asked about the political will. 04:46.000 --> 04:48.000 We already have something called the chipsect. 04:48.000 --> 04:51.000 And there, the allocation of money was a huge debate. 04:51.000 --> 04:55.000 So there was money available in the frameworks and the funds. 04:55.000 --> 04:59.000 However, they had to take money away from other things in order to support the chipsect. 04:59.000 --> 05:03.000 And in order to support chips in Europe, or at least, you know, 05:03.000 --> 05:06.000 also talking about recycling and other aspects that are not necessary now for the debate. 05:06.000 --> 05:09.000 But if this money comes genuinely from a new source, 05:09.000 --> 05:12.000 and they identified that this is for the competitiveness necessary, 05:12.000 --> 05:15.000 I think that there is actually a possibility. 05:15.000 --> 05:20.000 Secondly, I think what another quite remarkable thing is, already last year, 05:20.000 --> 05:25.000 we had a conference on the Eurostek organized by the people that you offered the report with. 05:25.000 --> 05:28.000 And it came like five different groups came together. 05:28.000 --> 05:32.000 And from EPP, which is remarkable and until the left, 05:32.000 --> 05:34.000 I think that this is already a very good sign. 05:34.000 --> 05:37.000 And under the course that we have a need for this, 05:37.000 --> 05:42.000 and that there is political interest and political willingness to make this a reality. 05:42.000 --> 05:45.000 I can't look into the future, but I think that now, 05:45.000 --> 05:47.000 the new paradigm is competitiveness. 05:47.000 --> 05:51.000 And if we do not focus it around European solutions, we're going granular. 05:51.000 --> 05:55.000 So I really think that we have to go, you just calling it Eurostek does not suffice. 05:55.000 --> 05:58.000 I think we have to really identify what this infrastructure, 05:58.000 --> 06:01.000 where is infrastructure needed, where do we already have a solution, 06:01.000 --> 06:03.000 and where do we need to adapt it? 06:03.000 --> 06:08.000 But then I think that there is actually a good chance for making this a reality. 06:08.000 --> 06:11.000 Maybe our views are not that different. 06:11.000 --> 06:16.000 I think what's really interesting and what we saw with also the cooperation 06:16.000 --> 06:23.000 which we have with France right now is that it's really needed to get results and get starting. 06:23.000 --> 06:27.000 I think with, especially if you have a European project, 06:27.000 --> 06:30.000 it's, I don't like a planning phase of multiple years. 06:31.000 --> 06:35.000 You have to wait, you have to do all sorts of reports and stuff like that, 06:35.000 --> 06:41.000 whereas we saw if we want to have some cool results and we have a very highly motivated 06:41.000 --> 06:44.000 joint team, we should get going. 06:44.000 --> 06:50.000 At the same time, as we see right now, we have the Netherlands who joined us, 06:50.000 --> 06:55.000 we will have maybe some more countries and we are willing to have more countries to join us. 06:55.000 --> 06:59.000 At that point, we see that we need to be more mature. 06:59.000 --> 07:03.000 We need to grow up in regards to how the project is structured, 07:03.000 --> 07:07.000 but also in regards to how the funding is structured for that. 07:07.000 --> 07:10.000 And we see that there is a need, a European need for these solutions, 07:10.000 --> 07:13.000 and we are willing to be first mover, so to say, 07:13.000 --> 07:18.000 and to share it in an open source kind of spirit with other countries. 07:18.000 --> 07:25.000 But at the same time, we see that we need to have possibilities, 07:25.000 --> 07:29.000 where on a European or on a broader European level, 07:29.000 --> 07:33.000 we can actually work together and also provide, 07:33.000 --> 07:37.000 so to say, joint services for all different member states. 07:37.000 --> 07:43.000 It's really interesting because there are actually, there are ways not only big funding types, 07:43.000 --> 07:48.000 but there are, there is this abbreviation, which is called an EDIC, 07:48.000 --> 07:51.000 for example, it's some sort of a legal body, so to say, 07:51.000 --> 07:56.000 where multiple countries join together and have a joint funding 07:56.000 --> 08:01.000 from the European Commission, but also from their own states. 08:01.000 --> 08:04.000 And these are all methods, which we can use. 08:04.000 --> 08:07.000 But at the same time, for example, just us, we applied for a fund. 08:07.000 --> 08:14.000 If we would wait for it to be granted to us, which we will hope will happen this year. 08:14.000 --> 08:19.000 But by that time, we will already have six more challenges. 08:19.000 --> 08:24.000 So, six more results within our tools, which is kind of, 08:24.000 --> 08:26.000 that's where we are stuck, so to say. 08:26.000 --> 08:31.000 But I think coming back to your question, these corporations are super useful 08:31.000 --> 08:32.000 and are needed. 08:32.000 --> 08:38.000 And I think that countries are more and more willing on a technical level, 08:38.000 --> 08:41.000 ready to cooperate because we have the same issues we have. 08:41.000 --> 08:45.000 Sometimes, same solutions or same tools, which we use. 08:45.000 --> 08:50.000 And the more we talk about open source, the more we talk about sharing results, 08:50.000 --> 08:52.000 so that not everybody has to start from the beginning. 08:52.000 --> 08:56.000 And I think that kind of open source spirit, but also a co-authoring, 08:56.000 --> 09:01.000 so to say, of technical results, is something that can be really useful 09:01.000 --> 09:04.000 and can be seen also outside of the productivity workspace, 09:04.000 --> 09:08.000 which is just for the public servants in the first place. 09:08.000 --> 09:11.000 Okay, so we want to make these a conversation. 09:11.000 --> 09:15.000 So, if anyone has questions or otherwise that we can continue, 09:15.000 --> 09:18.000 but was there quite high? 09:18.000 --> 09:19.000 Yeah. 09:19.000 --> 09:20.000 Accelerate? 09:20.000 --> 09:23.000 Yeah, maybe we will repeat it then. 09:42.000 --> 09:43.000 Thank you. 09:43.000 --> 09:45.000 Thank you. 09:45.000 --> 09:47.000 Thank you. 09:47.000 --> 09:49.000 Thank you. 09:49.000 --> 09:51.000 Thank you. 09:51.000 --> 09:53.000 Thank you. 09:53.000 --> 09:54.000 Thank you. 09:54.000 --> 09:56.000 Thank you. 09:56.000 --> 09:57.000 Thank you. 09:57.000 --> 09:58.000 Thank you. 09:58.000 --> 09:59.000 Thank you. 09:59.000 --> 10:00.000 Thank you. 10:00.000 --> 10:01.000 Thank you. 10:01.000 --> 10:02.000 Thank you. 10:02.000 --> 10:03.000 Thank you. 10:03.000 --> 10:04.000 Thank you. 10:04.000 --> 10:06.000 Thank you. 10:06.000 --> 10:07.000 Thank you. 10:07.000 --> 10:08.000 Thank you. 10:08.000 --> 10:09.000 Thank you. 10:10.000 --> 10:15.000 Just as a really good technical solution or a software product, 10:15.000 --> 10:23.000 documentation is always the thing which is sometimes lacking or moving behind. 10:23.000 --> 10:27.000 I see some people who have the same struggle. 10:27.000 --> 10:30.000 But with us onboarding Netherlands, right now, 10:30.000 --> 10:33.000 we write down, and it's one part of our homework, 10:33.000 --> 10:36.000 so to say, to make it easier. 10:37.000 --> 10:40.000 We try to make it learning, or we try to write down learnings, 10:40.000 --> 10:42.000 in regards to how to use the software, 10:42.000 --> 10:45.000 but also how to join and create this process, 10:45.000 --> 10:48.000 so that others can join us faster. 10:48.000 --> 10:53.000 But at the same time, we see that we just had a chat with, 10:53.000 --> 10:55.000 sort of say, all three nations. 10:55.000 --> 10:57.000 Yesterday, and we saw that even paperwork, 10:57.000 --> 11:00.000 which we are doing is sometimes slower than the deaf teams, 11:00.000 --> 11:04.000 because the deaf teams already have all the systems up and running. 11:05.000 --> 11:08.000 So we have a struggle, but we are going to, 11:08.000 --> 11:12.000 it's one of the topics for the next 100 day challenges 11:12.000 --> 11:16.000 is to talk more about the process itself. 11:16.000 --> 11:19.000 Anyone else? 11:19.000 --> 11:20.000 Other way. 11:20.000 --> 11:21.000 Well, okay. 11:21.000 --> 11:28.000 How will you guarantee the continuity of the development of open-desk or 11:28.000 --> 11:31.000 what we can meet in the future? 11:31.000 --> 11:35.000 Because it's great talking about all the open-desk projects 11:35.000 --> 11:38.000 after the first generation of developers 11:38.000 --> 11:44.000 they tend to, let's say, sort of down and eventually stop. 11:44.000 --> 11:48.000 So the question was, how can we ensure that 11:48.000 --> 11:53.000 the products are not going to die with users, so to say? 11:54.000 --> 11:59.000 The answer is, I think, various ways that we try. 11:59.000 --> 12:04.000 First, we work not only as an open source project, 12:04.000 --> 12:08.000 but we have partners who have, 12:08.000 --> 12:15.000 we had a huge European tender in regards to ensuring the way 12:15.000 --> 12:21.000 that we can keep the development of open-desk for the upcoming years 12:21.000 --> 12:23.000 and also keep the support. 12:23.000 --> 12:27.000 So if you can't just use your example, 12:27.000 --> 12:29.000 if you can't send emails, 12:29.000 --> 12:33.000 and you are working in a prime minister's office or so, 12:33.000 --> 12:36.000 you don't want to write down in a community forum somewhere 12:36.000 --> 12:38.000 that my email isn't working, 12:38.000 --> 12:40.000 but you want to have some sort of a phone, 12:40.000 --> 12:45.000 which you can be polite to a support engineer 12:45.000 --> 12:48.000 and ask him how to solve this issue. 12:49.000 --> 12:50.000 So this is one. 12:50.000 --> 12:52.000 The other one is actually through corporations. 12:52.000 --> 12:55.000 I think the more countries and the more users we have, 12:55.000 --> 12:56.000 the better it is. 12:56.000 --> 12:59.000 People sometimes focus just on the public market, 12:59.000 --> 13:02.000 but the public market is not the entire economics sphere, 13:02.000 --> 13:03.000 which is out there. 13:03.000 --> 13:06.000 So we will see how these tools, 13:06.000 --> 13:08.000 how they will be able to be used, 13:08.000 --> 13:10.000 also outside of the public institutions. 13:10.000 --> 13:14.000 And I think all of this adds up to ensuring, 13:14.000 --> 13:17.000 so to say, the longer life of these tools, 13:17.000 --> 13:22.000 and we are vetting the tools not only on usability, 13:22.000 --> 13:26.000 but also security and also some sort of financial stability 13:26.000 --> 13:29.000 aspect of the product themselves. 13:29.000 --> 13:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I can't think, 13:31.000 --> 13:33.000 but I think it's important to clarify that, 13:33.000 --> 13:36.000 open-desk is not the classic project in which 13:36.000 --> 13:38.000 a public administration takes out a money, 13:38.000 --> 13:40.000 pays developers, then the money ends, and they go away. 13:40.000 --> 13:43.000 So the point is to establish a partnership between the public sector 13:43.000 --> 13:47.000 so there are companies working on that on those products, 13:47.000 --> 13:50.000 and they made a tender, so there was a possibility to, 13:50.000 --> 13:53.000 and then there are people that are paid to continue developing 13:53.000 --> 13:55.000 these projects, they're supporting them, 13:55.000 --> 13:58.000 and so this is also the positive result for the market. 13:58.000 --> 14:02.000 So creating feedback money into the open-source industry 14:02.000 --> 14:05.000 to pay open source developers to continue to develop 14:05.000 --> 14:07.000 and support these products. 14:07.000 --> 14:09.000 So... 14:38.000 --> 14:39.000 Yeah. 14:42.000 --> 14:44.000 So I tried to paraphrase the question. 14:44.000 --> 14:47.000 It's true, 2027 Horizon Europe is ending, 14:47.000 --> 14:51.000 so this was the 2021 until 2027 was the scope of that project, 14:51.000 --> 14:53.000 but there's more than just Horizon Europe, 14:53.000 --> 14:56.000 I want to also mention that there's also digital to Europe program 14:56.000 --> 14:57.000 and others. 14:57.000 --> 15:02.000 Indeed, everyone who remembers the debate that we've had 15:02.000 --> 15:05.000 on a rule of law and to green deal and everything 15:05.000 --> 15:09.000 in the council, when we discussed the multi-annual financial framework, 15:09.000 --> 15:11.000 knows that this is super political. 15:11.000 --> 15:14.000 However, what I want to say as a positive side here is 15:14.000 --> 15:17.000 competitiveness, and I will make it a bit, 15:17.000 --> 15:20.000 you know, pretty please, please, please, in these things. 15:20.000 --> 15:24.000 By Europe first, this will become a real deal. 15:24.000 --> 15:26.000 So I think that there's an opportunity, 15:26.000 --> 15:29.000 and what I also want to emphasize is that what you said, 15:29.000 --> 15:31.000 we have to have the private sector involved too, 15:31.000 --> 15:33.000 because this creates demand, 15:33.000 --> 15:36.000 and then we can also ask for money from the European investment bank, 15:36.000 --> 15:37.000 for instance. 15:37.000 --> 15:38.000 It is not only the European, 15:38.000 --> 15:40.000 that we have to ask for these funds, 15:40.000 --> 15:44.000 but it also creating the demand around the infrastructure, 15:44.000 --> 15:45.000 around the services. 15:45.000 --> 15:47.000 And I think actually that there's a good chance 15:47.000 --> 15:49.000 that this will be taken finally seriously 15:49.000 --> 15:51.000 because when you compare the budgets, 15:51.000 --> 15:53.000 whatever Horizon Europe has is, 15:53.000 --> 15:56.000 I think, not even a fourth of what only Amazon's 15:56.000 --> 15:59.000 research and development has as its edit disposal. 15:59.000 --> 16:01.000 And this should worry us, 16:01.000 --> 16:03.000 and this should also be a wake-up call. 16:03.000 --> 16:05.000 This should have been a wake-up call five years ago. 16:05.000 --> 16:06.000 However, we are doing now, 16:06.000 --> 16:10.000 the necessary work, and therefore I'm actually cautiously optimistic, 16:10.000 --> 16:12.000 as much as I can be. 16:12.000 --> 16:19.000 So I have a good job for presenting that. 16:19.000 --> 16:22.000 I was wondering, how do you think elements 16:22.000 --> 16:24.000 that have with less you are, 16:24.000 --> 16:28.000 but this will create a new energy. 16:28.000 --> 16:30.000 Do you think so? 16:30.000 --> 16:34.000 Please repeat the question. 16:34.000 --> 16:36.000 Yes, the good. 16:36.000 --> 16:38.000 So the question was, 16:38.000 --> 16:41.000 how can we promote solutions such as open desk 16:41.000 --> 16:42.000 in the European Parliament? 16:42.000 --> 16:45.000 So what can we do in the Parliament as an institution 16:45.000 --> 16:47.000 in order to promote such services? 16:47.000 --> 16:50.000 Myself, I'm trying to get a solution 16:50.000 --> 16:53.000 through my internal IT department. 16:53.000 --> 16:56.000 That would allow me to use several apps 16:56.000 --> 16:58.000 such as Signal Freema in one, 16:58.000 --> 17:00.000 so basically an all-in-one messenger. 17:00.000 --> 17:03.000 The constraints from my IT department 17:03.000 --> 17:05.000 in terms of is the safe. 17:05.000 --> 17:07.000 Does it create vulnerabilities for the infrastructure? 17:07.000 --> 17:10.000 How much does it cost if we have a European, 17:10.000 --> 17:13.000 you know, license, just for that, just for the Parliament? 17:13.000 --> 17:15.000 This is ongoing since three years. 17:15.000 --> 17:18.000 So since three years, I'm inefficient, ineffective, 17:18.000 --> 17:20.000 because I have to use three different apps on my phone, 17:20.000 --> 17:23.000 partly obviously if it was on my computer, it would be faster, 17:23.000 --> 17:26.000 because of these questions, because of these considerations. 17:26.000 --> 17:29.000 While at the same time, we use Microsoft Teams, 17:29.000 --> 17:31.000 and Microsoft Outlook. 17:31.000 --> 17:33.000 Exactly. 17:33.000 --> 17:36.000 So I've just think that we have to put these things, 17:36.000 --> 17:38.000 we have to be honest about this as well. 17:38.000 --> 17:41.000 So obviously there are forces who want to change it, 17:41.000 --> 17:43.000 but the administrative burden and the paper example 17:43.000 --> 17:47.000 is just beautiful because it's so bizarre and real. 17:47.000 --> 17:50.000 We have the same for procurement in the European Parliament. 17:50.000 --> 17:54.000 There is some open source, there is some open source software deployed, 17:54.000 --> 17:56.000 but it is invisible. 17:56.000 --> 17:59.000 In order to make this a good project, a good practice, 17:59.000 --> 18:01.000 example, that's what I said earlier. 18:01.000 --> 18:04.000 We have to really go into what is the service, 18:04.000 --> 18:07.000 what is the actual, where are we open source? 18:07.000 --> 18:10.000 What is built on top of that open source? 18:10.000 --> 18:13.000 Unfortunately, I think that there will be much more conferences 18:13.000 --> 18:16.000 like this needed, and many more people, like me, 18:16.000 --> 18:20.000 invited to these things in order to realize the necessity for this. 18:20.000 --> 18:23.000 We may have, yeah. 18:23.000 --> 18:30.000 What you need to use, let people know, and find the room is okay. 18:30.000 --> 18:33.000 The room, we have more than enough rooms in the Parliament. 18:33.000 --> 18:37.000 That's the suggestion was to organize something similar. 18:37.000 --> 18:40.000 Absolutely, I'm absolutely agreeing with you, 18:40.000 --> 18:43.000 and there are a couple of people in the room that I already last year, 18:43.000 --> 18:44.000 suggested to have that. 18:44.000 --> 18:47.000 To educate colleagues, such as myself, 18:47.000 --> 18:50.000 because I will not lie, I'm learning a lot at the moment, 18:50.000 --> 18:55.000 about the possibilities, about what all of that means in reality. 18:55.000 --> 18:57.000 Everybody was always, you know, 18:57.000 --> 18:59.000 we used these buzzwork edge computing, 18:59.000 --> 19:02.000 which is a regular HPC and so on and so forth, 19:02.000 --> 19:05.000 but I bet, and nobody would ever admit this, 19:05.000 --> 19:08.000 there is a handful of people that would be able to have 19:08.000 --> 19:11.000 a conversation level conversation on this, 19:11.000 --> 19:14.000 and the rest would be just nodding and saying, 19:14.000 --> 19:17.000 yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, edge computing indeed, yeah. 19:17.000 --> 19:19.000 So that's the thing. 19:19.000 --> 19:22.000 We have one way out, and then one way out. 19:39.000 --> 19:42.000 So the question is about how do we actually involve the private sector, 19:42.000 --> 19:44.000 and how do we reach out to the private sector, 19:44.000 --> 19:46.000 and maybe it's a question for you. 19:46.000 --> 19:48.000 But in general, I think they do attend them, 19:48.000 --> 19:50.000 so they just look for companies that are willing to provide 19:50.000 --> 19:52.000 the work is necessary. 19:52.000 --> 19:57.000 I would understand your questions slightly different in regards to 19:57.000 --> 20:01.000 how can we involve the private sector in tools like 20:01.000 --> 20:03.000 class wheat and open desk? 20:03.000 --> 20:05.000 Exactly, thanks. 20:05.000 --> 20:09.000 I think, so what we do right now is we try to figure out 20:09.000 --> 20:13.000 how government to business models can look like. 20:13.000 --> 20:15.000 In the software sector, you have that in energy 20:15.000 --> 20:17.000 or building highways or something like that, 20:17.000 --> 20:19.000 but you don't have that much in software, 20:19.000 --> 20:22.000 so we are looking for solutions in that regard. 20:22.000 --> 20:24.000 And open source is really helping us, 20:24.000 --> 20:26.000 because the code is available, 20:26.000 --> 20:30.000 you can go to our open source platform, 20:30.000 --> 20:32.000 which is called opencode.de, 20:32.000 --> 20:34.000 and you can just download open desk, 20:34.000 --> 20:36.000 and the same is with last week, 20:36.000 --> 20:38.000 I think there is a link also on the website, 20:38.000 --> 20:41.000 or just Google it, and try to use it, 20:41.000 --> 20:43.000 and I think what's really interesting for us is 20:43.000 --> 20:47.000 not getting them involved in a contract business relation 20:47.000 --> 20:49.000 to us, but them starting using it, 20:49.000 --> 20:52.000 and creating the need, basically what you also said, 20:52.000 --> 20:57.000 because from where you start using and sharing stuff, 20:57.000 --> 21:00.000 you can basically also have the same solution, 21:00.000 --> 21:02.000 still being kept as an open source tool. 21:02.000 --> 21:04.000 You always see it whenever there is a migration. 21:04.000 --> 21:06.000 I don't know, it was, 21:06.000 --> 21:09.000 I think it was Slack or something like that, 21:09.000 --> 21:12.000 where you would have at the beginning, 21:12.000 --> 21:14.000 when they were looking for people, 21:14.000 --> 21:15.000 all the APIs were open, 21:15.000 --> 21:17.000 and you could migrate to it easily, 21:17.000 --> 21:19.000 once they had a community base, 21:19.000 --> 21:20.000 they shut down, 21:20.000 --> 21:23.000 and I think this is something that we should keep in mind, 21:23.000 --> 21:25.000 and having an open source-based product, 21:25.000 --> 21:27.000 which is being kept open source, 21:27.000 --> 21:29.000 and supported by governments, 21:29.000 --> 21:31.000 but also maybe private institutions, 21:31.000 --> 21:33.000 next question, 21:33.000 --> 21:36.000 or maybe last question as far as answer, last question. 21:36.000 --> 21:37.000 Yes. 21:37.000 --> 21:39.000 It's a little funny to see that, 21:39.000 --> 21:42.000 all of the things that everybody uses, 21:42.000 --> 21:44.000 like the sources, 21:44.000 --> 21:48.000 contacting all of the things that you're thinking of, 21:48.000 --> 21:50.000 that the source or something is about you, 21:50.000 --> 21:52.000 and I think it's this thing, 21:52.000 --> 21:54.000 because all these folks out here, 21:54.000 --> 21:57.000 like you would try an interest, 21:57.000 --> 22:00.000 that they've always developed a game of a whole heart, 22:00.000 --> 22:01.000 but don't just take this, 22:01.000 --> 22:04.000 there is no single startup, 22:04.000 --> 22:06.000 but it's really hard out there, 22:06.000 --> 22:08.000 with own open source. 22:08.000 --> 22:09.000 Yeah. 22:09.000 --> 22:10.000 The people who've been there, 22:10.000 --> 22:11.000 with open source, 22:11.000 --> 22:12.000 you know, 22:12.000 --> 22:13.000 you ask for open source. 22:13.000 --> 22:15.000 It's a heavy burden for open source. 22:15.000 --> 22:16.000 Yeah. 22:16.000 --> 22:17.000 Google, 22:17.000 --> 22:19.000 build an open source, right? 22:19.000 --> 22:21.000 So there's things already there, 22:21.000 --> 22:23.000 everything that's just from this game, 22:23.000 --> 22:25.000 to the same thing that this folks, 22:25.000 --> 22:26.000 for a thing, 22:26.000 --> 22:28.000 and I think the only thing left is Microsoft, 22:28.000 --> 22:29.000 so I'm not, 22:29.000 --> 22:32.000 but even Microsoft is using open source, 22:32.000 --> 22:35.000 that knowledge is now heavily inside open source, 22:35.000 --> 22:37.000 but open source is a new, 22:37.000 --> 22:40.000 an attempt to explore success. 22:40.000 --> 22:44.000 I'm predicting this is one of the different settings, 22:44.000 --> 22:45.000 itself, 22:45.000 --> 22:47.000 it will place certain circumstances, 22:47.000 --> 22:48.000 because open source, 22:48.000 --> 22:49.000 original, 22:49.000 --> 22:50.000 new source, 22:50.000 --> 22:53.000 can make technology open for others to learn, 22:53.000 --> 22:55.000 but not even all of these things. 22:55.000 --> 22:57.000 So, 22:57.000 --> 22:59.000 that 25 years, 23:00.000 --> 23:01.000 you know, 23:03.000 --> 23:04.000 yeah. 23:04.000 --> 23:05.000 So, yeah. 23:05.000 --> 23:06.000 No, yeah. 23:07.000 --> 23:10.000 I think that the show summary is that open source is everywhere, 23:10.000 --> 23:11.000 and we are all aware of it, 23:11.000 --> 23:12.000 and it's not just an obvious thing, 23:12.000 --> 23:13.000 there are companies, 23:13.000 --> 23:14.000 even in Europe that do open source, 23:14.000 --> 23:16.000 there's professional answers, 23:16.000 --> 23:18.000 so I think they understood this, 23:18.000 --> 23:20.000 so they are going to rely on open source. 23:20.000 --> 23:21.000 So, 23:21.000 --> 23:22.000 but now we have to close down, 23:22.000 --> 23:23.000 so I will give them, 23:23.000 --> 23:24.000 like 30 seconds each, 23:24.000 --> 23:25.000 I think we still have, 23:25.000 --> 23:26.000 okay. 23:26.000 --> 23:27.000 So if you want to say something, 23:28.000 --> 23:30.000 and then we can be close. 23:30.000 --> 23:33.000 Thank you very much for the input from the questions in particular, 23:33.000 --> 23:35.000 the last remark I think this should have been, 23:35.000 --> 23:36.000 the closing remarks, 23:36.000 --> 23:37.000 because they were true, 23:37.000 --> 23:38.000 they were amazing, 23:38.000 --> 23:39.000 and I think that yeah, 23:39.000 --> 23:40.000 indeed all of you have jobs, 23:40.000 --> 23:42.000 this is a paid industry that, 23:42.000 --> 23:44.000 where you are supposed to be renumerated, 23:44.000 --> 23:46.000 but for the vast majority of people, 23:46.000 --> 23:47.000 it's invisible. 23:47.000 --> 23:48.000 And this is, 23:48.000 --> 23:49.000 I mean, 23:49.000 --> 23:51.000 you have the same problem as the European Union, 23:51.000 --> 23:53.000 we have a communication issue, 23:53.000 --> 23:55.000 so we have to promote whatever we do better, 23:55.000 --> 23:58.000 and discuss what we are doing for everyone else to understand. 23:58.000 --> 24:00.000 I think this is a beautiful example 24:00.000 --> 24:01.000 where we are actually in the same, 24:01.000 --> 24:02.000 so to say, 24:02.000 --> 24:04.000 in the same situation. 24:04.000 --> 24:05.000 So obviously, 24:05.000 --> 24:07.000 I'm taking a lot from this conversation, 24:07.000 --> 24:09.000 and I'm very grateful for the invitation, 24:09.000 --> 24:13.000 and looking forward to working with a few of you in the future. 24:13.000 --> 24:15.000 I am. 24:20.000 --> 24:22.000 My last remark is, 24:22.000 --> 24:23.000 in the afternoon, 24:23.000 --> 24:26.000 we have a deaf room on government collaboration. 24:26.000 --> 24:28.000 So if you want to chat with us with different colleagues, 24:28.000 --> 24:31.000 with the people from the Southern Cloud stack, 24:31.000 --> 24:32.000 all of us, 24:32.000 --> 24:33.000 I guess also, 24:33.000 --> 24:35.000 the Dutch are going to be there as well, 24:35.000 --> 24:36.000 the Netherlands, 24:36.000 --> 24:39.000 maybe someone from the EU as well, 24:39.000 --> 24:42.000 come to us and let's have a conversation there. 24:42.000 --> 24:43.000 Thanks.